Thursday, August 24, 2017

Girl Scouts Complain about Competition in Scouting


My daughter Katherine is a Boy Scout. Actually, she is a Venturing Crew member, part of Boy Scouts of American open to boys and girls age 14 to 21. She was a Girl Scout, but quit many years ago when many girls in her “troop” lost interest.


When Katherine was 16, she told me she wanted to become a Venturing Crew member so she could go to Japan to the World Scout Jamboree. She did and came home full of Scout spirit. She even followed up her trip to Japan with a trip to the National Jamboree this summer as a Venturing Crew unit member.


In Japan there were 132 nations represented. Of the 132, 128 have boys and girls as part of the same organization and program. It was evident, the BSA in the US was behind the curve for World Scouting.


The World Jamboree is coming to the US in 2019 as the United States, Mexico and Canada host the event to be held in West Virginia.


Girl Scouts Accuse Boy Scouts of Recruiting Girls, Souring Century-Old Friendship
By MATTHEW HAAG
Around the time of World War I, two organizations set out to mold young Americans into resourceful and virtuous future leaders, instilling in them the admirable traits of citizenship, loyalty and courage. Members of both groups wore uniforms, explored the wilderness and swore to uphold their values.
https://goo.gl/jATMZw


Katherine was able to participate in these activities because she is an accomplished camper. She spent time on Boy Scout campouts as a young girl when I had to drag her along because my wife worked on the weekend. She also attended summer camp in Wisconsin, and was used to the challenges of living outdoors.


Many girls however don’t have Katherine’s experience. In fact, for many girls their Scouting experience comes to an end just at the same time it gets interesting for boys.


Without the camping experience that boys get in their tween years, girls are often not prepared for the high adventure available as part of Venture Scouts.


Interesting, the Gold Award of Girl Scouts is the only Girl Scout award that can be worn on the Venture Scout uniform.


I started a Venturing Crew to give my daughter, her friends and some of the older Boy Scouts in my troop an additional Scouting experience. When she and many of her friends left for college, I needed to start all over to rebuild the Venturing Crew.


In order to build a sustainable Venturing Crew, and to respond to interest from girls too young for Venturing, I started an Exploring Club. This Club is a unit of girls only who are being taught the same skills that boys are at the same age. We are teaching them the skills and values of First Class Trail of Boy Scouts.


Friday, these Exploring Club members will go on their first Troop outing, a canoe trip on the Wisconsin river. They were given BSA Safety Afloat training, just like the Boy Scouts. They were given a lesson river canoeing. And they will be given onsite instruction.


The girls are going to do the same thing that the boys are doing, which is what they want. And some of the girls in our Exploring Club are Girl Scouts, and our program is allowing them to accomplish requirements or do things not available from their troop currently. We encourage girls to stay in Girl Scouts while in our Exploring Club and to earn their Gold Award. It is possible to do both.


I don’t know much about Girl Scouts, as my wife was the troop leader, not me. I do know that that the Boy Scouts not competing with the Girl Scouts is one of the worst things the Boy Scouts could have done to them.


Competition makes us better. The message I hear from the Girl Scouts is that they have enjoyed a long monopoly over girls and want to continue to do so. Unfortunately, the world does not work that way.


Already Boy Scouts of America has girls as Venturing Crew or Exploring Post or Club members. Additionally, the Boy Scouts have a pilot program running in a dozen or so councils for STEM Scouts. This program is for boys and girls from grade 3 to 12. It has tremendous potential if developed properly to bring more boys and girls into Scouting that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts traditional programs combined.


I was involved in the early stages of bringing STEM Scouts to Chicago and was told when it was originally designed that the Girl Scouts were asked to participate, but declined. It is their right, and BSA moved forward.


I am a proponent of empowered girls, boys and people. As a Scouter for more than 16 years as an adult I have yet to see anything in the Boy Scout program that a girl could not do. And some of them want to, so I say let them.

I am a big believer in the potential of the Boy Scout program to develop young people into leaders who are good citizens, able and fit outdoors people, productive members of society and stewards of our environment.

Competition is good. The Girl Scouts will need to spend less time asking for a continuation of a monopoly on girls in Scouting and spend more time making their program more dynamic to meet the needs of the girls of today. As a result, girls will have more choices and opportunities.

30 comments:

  1. Competition is good and so is developing young people. But, that being said, opening up the Boy Scout program to young girls is just asking for all kinds of trouble. Would you want your young son camping alongside young girls or spending a week or more with them? Would you want your young daughter camping alongside young boys? Youth Protection would be a nightmare for the BSA. Also, by the way, your daughter is a VENTURER, not a Venture Scout. There is no such thing as a Venture Crew. VENTURERS belong to VENTURING CREWS. Please properly label these things if you are going to address such a potent topic, otherwise you lose credibility.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. absolutely I would want my kids to camp alongside other kids, regardless of gender.

      Delete
    2. Our BSA Troop allows sisters to camp with the troop and it has never been a problem. Venturing Crews require a male leader and female leader if girls and boys are at the same camping event. Girls tent with girls, boys tent with boys. There is no nightmare of youth protection. It works out just fine.

      Delete
    3. Really? You would want your young daughter camping alongside young boys filled with hormones at the worst possible time in their life.

      Delete
    4. How is youth protection a nightmare for the BSA if the program allowed girls? It exists for the Venturing program, and works! As a crew president as well as former council VOA President for Venturing, there IS such a thing as Venture Crews, and you can call them Venturers OR Venture Scouts, whatever you want. Looking at my uniform, it is by my understanding that it says "Venturing, BSA", meaning we are a part of the Boy Scout Program.

      Also to state my case and mage it legit, I am and Eagle Scout, Vigil Honor member, and have worked in programs all across the country for all sectors of scouting. From what I know, opening scouting to girls would be no problem at all, as well as would be beneficial to many. I know many girls who wish with all their hearts that they could be involved in our program, and hated girl scouts with a passion.

      Delete
    5. Micah all Scout leaders, whether they work for the council or they are adult leaders in a troop, go through what's called youth protection training. The reason that's in place is to prevent the exact situation that you're afraid of. That doesn't apply to just the Boy Scouts that's all parts of scouting program

      Delete
    6. @Unknown, Despite being a crew associate advisor for 6 years, I just learned this stuff myself as I'm helping to start a new crew.

      http://www.venturing.org/venturing-terminology.html

      The name of the program is "Venturing".
      A unit is called a "Venturing Crew", not a Venture Crew or Venturer Crew.
      A youth is called a "Venturer", not a Venture Scout.

      Delete
  2. That is your argument, that young kids shouldn't be able to camp together as a co-ed unit? I'm sure that the Boy Scouts would not put girls and boys in the same tent. young kids could camp together just fine it- would be the adults with their dirty minds that would have an issue.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't forget that a large percentage of young boys and girls have just as equally dirty minds and are even more prone to act on it when presented the opportunity. Think about it. If you are a young boy or girl filled with hormones and just next to you in a separate tent is another young boy or girl. What would you do? That is the scenario we have to think about. The chances are just too great.

      Delete
    2. I am the unit leader of a sea scout ship. As with venturing, sea scouts is a coed program open to boys and girls aged 14 to 21 and part of the BSA. We have been on many overnight outings including on board vessels, we have never had a problem. I am afraid you do not give these young men and women enough credit. We have just returned from a 10 day adventure in the UK where we spent time with British sea scouts and scouts where it is coed all the way from Cubs.

      Delete
  3. The rest of the world is co-ed, we are one of two countries that hasn't changed yet. I think that adding girls to our troops will make the world a better place because we have girls and boys working together and learning among themselves respectfully. I wouldn't have a problem having young girls and boys camping together, but I agree on the tent issue, same sex in the tent like in venturing, but outside of the tent, I want boys and girls to learn scouting's values together. The adults would have to rampup on youth protection, but come on, it only means that you'll have to have a female leader on site in additon to the male leaders. Its not hard to do! They're doing it right now with venturing!!!! I'm not too strict about the labeling, i think they mean the same thing because they explain to the outsiders what it means. I dont mind if we call ourselves venture scouts or venturers. Lets include and not exclude the other 50% of our population into the BSA!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What happens when a girl Boy Scout gets pregnant. Is she kicked out. His her boy friend kicked out, if he is a Scout. Is premarital sex compliant with Scout Oath, Scout law? Should Scout Leaders be in the practiced of distributing contraceptives, like they do at some schools?

      Delete
  4. I went to co-ed camps my whole life, and came out just fine.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Maybe if Girl Scouts didn't have such a weak program that really only involves sales from start of year to finish they wouldn't have to be so worried about it.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And give the girls the active outdoor program that they want...

      Delete
    2. When my mom was a GS Troop leader for my sisters' troop, she took them camping...A LOT! They didn't stay in cabins, they tent camped and they had fun. My brother and I were to young to stay home alone (my dad was on the road as a salesman a lot) so we went with them all the time - we even earned our hiking staffs and 3 badges (forget which ones) and were awarded them at their annual banquet. The Girl Scouts need to do more outdoor programs - I know some troops do outdoor activities, but it needs to be formalized and structured for the needs of girls today.

      Delete
  6. Micah your correction about Venturing terminology is dead on. Venturers not Venture Scouts, Venturing Crews not Venture Crew! In regards to the co-ed youth protection issues, I can speak from my experience as being an Venturing Crew Advisor for more than six years in two different units. It is an issue but one that is addressed properly with the Venturing Youth Protection Training and with the proper adult leadership. When you have improper adult leadership, it is indeed a potential nightmare. I envision a future in the BSA when additional vetting will be in place to ensure proper adults are allowed into co-ed leadership positions.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you, Unknown. The problem with the viewpoint here is that you are parents and leaders. I am a young college student only a year or so out of high school. Speaking bluntly, back in that day I was horny as hell because at that young time in my life I was developing hormones like crazy, just like all the other boys in my troop. Putting all of us around a bunch of young girls our age was just a terrible idea. Bad things would occur, to be completely honest. Just take a look at our current society. Most kids go to public high school or middle school and those are the worst ages to be thrown together. The number of things that happen at high schools are ridiculous. Imagine having those kids camping alongside each other. They may be only a tent away, but they are only a tent away.

      Delete
  7. Three words "get over it"
    The YPT already has provisions for family events at all levels with girls, WE have venturing for youth ages 14-21 already and that is co-ed, so you're really worrying about cub-scout aged girls or 11-13 year old girs with boys? They ARE together in school, in life, and already in scouting. And in the entire rest of the scouting world it's co-ed. It's not about hormones, it's about inviting girls to achieve the precious Eagle OA, A scout is Brave, time to embrace change!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Spot on! We need to learn scouting's values with girls and learn how to live with girls. They are with us for life!

      Delete
  8. Dear John L, take a look at this amazing website!! It has useful information about Venturing Terminology! Worth a read for future venturing blog posts. http://www.venturing.org/venturing-terminology.html

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thank you for the link. That was helpful. Please forgive my sloppy language for "Venturing." Interestingly, Wikipedia lists it as Venturing Scout, or Venture Scout. Somewhere I must have picked that up.

      Delete
  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  10. Catching up with the 169 members of WOSM! U.S. and some Muslim countries are the few without coed Scouting for all age groups!
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Organization_of_the_Scout_Movement_members

    ReplyDelete
  11. I only wish Boy Scouts expanded their offerings. I understand the focus on outdoorsmanship, but that is NOT the only strength in the BSA. There are many, many other badges to earn, but around here, at least, the troops really only ever do camping and hiking. For a kid who loves to get together with other boys and learn stuff, but doesn't want his entire experience to be camping, it's kind of a bummer. What a shame we don't have STEM Scouts here yet!

    ReplyDelete
  12. So you would give your self control less credit than a dogs? Because a dog you tell it to sit and stay and it sits and stays because that's the rule, but a teenage boy, way less self control. I was a Venturing Scout from the time I was 14, through 21 and an adult leader after that. I went to Philmont as part of a co-ed group (with my boyfriend at the time) and was a youth and adult staffer for BSA's National Youth Leadership Training, Youth Staff Development Course, and Woodbadge. No problems that I can recall, and if there was a problem, those offending parties were out of Venturing faster than you could say "Philmont". What I DID find was a group of mature, driven Scouts who were interested in developing themselves and their crew and focused on the program. That's the difference between a high school and a Venturing program.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The GS experience I think depends on where you live. Our council offers the girls high adventure outdoor programming. We have girls who did the canyons of Utah for a week, we have another group going splelunking next summer. We take them canoe camping, whitewater canoeing, rappelling, rock climbing and backpacking. But we have dedicated volunteers who lead these for our GS council. We have some girls who do venture crews as well. I prefer my 3 daughters in GS. No competition with boys and they learn as a girl they can do anything.

    ReplyDelete
  14. The BSA needs to get Venturing fully established (it is not yet, just go take as poll of high school age girls and ask them if they have ever heard about it) before starting another organization.

    ReplyDelete
  15. GS Troops have several inherent flaws. First is they are not self sustaining like BSA Troops, meaning that they don't actively recruit to keep a single troop running. Another flaw is the Troop only go camping and have outdoor activities if the Troop leader wants to do that. In a properly run BSA troop the boys run the troop and pick the activities. Where my troop meets there is a GS Troop. We were gathering for a PLC meeting and the Game Leader was talking about the history of GSA with her girls. She talked about when the GSA had a Sea Scout type program and how things like that do not exist any more. I spoke up and corrected her I talked about Sea Scouting and Venture programs. I encouraged the girls to research them.

    ReplyDelete